Senior Dog Joints: A 30-Year Vet-Hospital Pro on Never Running on Hard Ground

JoanneHi.

Chris NobleHi, John.

Cameron MainWe met you a few months ago now at Superzoo in Vegas.

JoanneAt Superzoo, yeah.

Cameron MainYeah. Totally unexpected. Well, we met happy first.

JoanneYou noticed happy first.

Cameron MainYeah.

JoanneYes.

Cameron MainI think I said hello to him and then I said hello to you afterwards.

JoanneThat's how the whole day went, though. Oh, my goodness. It would take us an hour to walk down one of those aisles.

Cameron MainYeah, I get it.

JoanneHe's a showstopper.

Cameron MainHe is a showstopper. I've got a lot of clips to show of him afterwards as well. Certainly a beautiful dog. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.

JoanneWell, so I was at SuperZoo. I still like to stay in my industry. I come from veterinary medicine. I've worked in animal hospitals in every position in the animal hospital except as a veterinarian. Since 1990 was the first time I worked in an animal hospital. And I left in 2015. So just... I tell people it's compassion fatigue. You get burnout, and it can be a lot. I have the last hospital I was at, I designed and worked with the contractors for the whole thing. Just on everything, small animal, dogs and cats. I have had experiences with other animals, but that's where my main focus is in most of my education.

Cameron MainBut yeah, as you said, you're still very connected with the whole world.

JoanneI do. I go to the veterinary conference every year and keep up with my continuing education. SuperZoo, it's fun. It is fun to go there. You get to see the extreme of the extremes. But you also get to see kind of what is getting marketed to what your clientele would be and what's new out there. And there is... It is a huge industry now. Anything to do with your pet. Just in my adult time, I've seen the relationship between dogs and people change and go from where, you know, you kind of left for the day and left your dog at home. And now it's just socially acceptable to take your dog everywhere with you. Nobody thinks anything of it. And I think a lot of times it helps people. That don't even know you, you know, you're walking with your dog and somebody just needs a second.

Cameron MainYeah, they usually do.

JoanneYeah.

Cameron MainAnd I mean, you must have seen the industry totally evolve from...

JoanneOh, you know, some of the stuff that, you know, a lot of the things that I've seen change is from just pain care that we're done for dogs and cats. Cat pain care has really come a long way. But for dogs from the beginning where, you know, okay, if they have surgery, we know they're in pain to where now we're like, oh, well. His gait's a little bit different, so something's not right. And we have acupuncture and, you know, laser therapy and all those kind of things that you can do for your dogs and cats now. I know we're going to talk mostly about dogs. Cats have a big place, too. But it's just really evolved. And, you know, back in the day, you fed your dog Purina Puppy Chow. And after that... You know, whatever came next that was on the shelf in the grocery store to where now there's stores just specially built around what to feed your dog and how to care for your dog nutritionally. And it can be really confusing. And I don't think anybody has the intention of not doing what they think is best for their dog at the time. And some of it needs to be the start of an education and some of it almost needs to be de-Googling them. You've watched too many videos about what you're supposed to be doing.

Cameron MainYou'd like to think so, wouldn't you? Sometimes it is hard to tell if all the brands are, of course, making the best product for each dog. I think that was one of the first things that we really talked about when we hit it off. There were certain brands who had multiple, multiple different products. And even us in the industry, we weren't sure, what would I actually choose?

JoanneAnd I've had this conversation with my now veterinarian that I know... In my head what I'm supposed to be doing. But you come across these TikTok videos that are like, he gets one sardine in the morning and this in the afternoon. And you're like, wait, am I supposed to be doing all of this?

Cameron MainIt's overwhelming.

JoanneIt's overwhelming. It is so much so that I think you get confused so much by it that you don't do anything. Or too much of something can do a lot of harm where your pets are concerned also. You know, it's not... They're not humans. They have different nutritional needs. They have thousands and thousands of years of evolution that weren't mastered by commercial diets. And things that are marketed to the general public now aren't always in the best interest in the pet. They're in the best interest of a high-level corporation with really good promotions on TV and really big stars that are backing it. And it doesn't always equate to what, in my opinion, and the research that I've done, is best for your dog. And I don't know that there is... Ever going to be something that's 100% complete, but I think we can get to a place where you know that you're doing the best that you can in your situation for your dog.

Chris NobleIt sounds like nutrition is something that's super important to you.

JoanneWell, just like us, it's the fuel that feeds the machine. I have my own dietary stuff that I do with my dog. For my situation, I've got four dogs, four big dogs. And I do not just what, in my opinion, is best for my dogs, but works for my lifestyle also. My dogs are part of our family, but they're also our dogs. And we treat them like they're our dogs. We give them a lifestyle that's enjoyable for dogs. And I think that a lot of the research that's being done is out there for the public. And some of these things you should do your research and then go consult with your veterinarian and find out what they say. Don't listen to the salesperson at the pet store. Because a lot of times their education comes from the specific pet food company. And there are big, huge ones out there that I've talked to an internist about, and they're not complete. And they're marketed, and they are sold, and they are today some of the biggest pet foods in the country. And I go with an old standard. I've fed it for 30 years. All of my cats and dogs are on it. I don't believe there are good pet foods out there, but they don't have life stage formulas. I don't think that a puppy needs the same thing that my nine-year-old dog needs. They have different nutritional needs, different calorie needs. And I don't think pet foods that just have one life stage are necessarily what's best, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the doctors that I've talked to to help me with my dogs. And I've gotten dogs... Large dogs to 13 years old and our smaller dog was 14. They all ate the same thing. Knock on wood, they didn't have any health needs that needed to change with that. But that same company makes all the health foods that I need off. So if there's anything like that comes up.

Chris NobleAnd you've seen thousands of dogs throughout your career. What's the impact of bad nutrition?

JoanneWell, the first thing you do, you can really tell an animal's nutritional health, just like you can with people on first sight. Does their coat look okay? The skin on their face or their paws, that kind of stuff, the skin on their belly tells a big story. And part of what you do when you're triaging for an exam is, you know, how are your pets stools? A dog that has healthy nutrition is going to have healthy stools if there's no medical issue to go with that. Dogs that are shedding or flaky, some of that stuff you take into account there at the animal hospital and nerves will cause some of that stuff. But, you know... Exceptionally dry or brittle-looking coat. They are lacking something nutritionally, so we want to know, how are his bowel movements? Obviously, any vomiting or diarrhea. What do you feed? How often do you feed? You know, oh, well, I give Fluffy one cup of food twice a day. Oh, okay, so like this, and you show them the cup, and they're like, oh, no, I used the cup from 7-Eleven. Oh, so he's getting like three cups of sitting. So all of these nuances, and they don't think they're doing anything wrong. But that's what your medical team's there for, is to help you with those things. That's who you go to with questions. And that's who helps you refine what you're doing for your pet. You know, dogs, they roll over in the room and now they've got itchy red skin. All right, is that something out in the yard? Is that something that they're eating? There's all these things that are telltale signs. They can't tell us that they don't feel good, you know? And when they come into the animal hospital, you really have to pay attention to what their owner is telling you because he's going to act fine when he's there. You know, and they always, it's always something that they say to you is he's like, well, I promise you he was sick this morning. And so, and that's fine. We understand that. A dog is a pack animal. He's a predator animal. And in your pack, if you show illness or weakness, it doesn't bode well for your future. So dogs very often, and especially dogs, working dogs or something like that, such as my German Shepherd, he'll never show you that he doesn't feel good. It's just not in his personality to do those sorts of things, and it's a sign of weakness for him. And as far as he knows, I don't know if he thinks we're dogs or he thinks he's a person, but he definitely thinks this is his whole pack. And yes, he's the alpha dog in the pack, but he knows that ultimately we're the alpha and that, but he won't show, so he won't show us that stuff. And I explained to you guys earlier, I noticed that he was just the slightest hesitation trying to get onto the couch the other night and he's getting ready to turn nine. And I told my husband, There's things changing. So it's just those things when you're around your dog for long enough, you start to see those things. But if somebody is not asking you the right questions, then you're not going to even realize that that was an issue. And you'll find people, oh, his coat looks good. Oh, yeah, I give him olive oil twice a day. Oh, well, that can be kind of hard on his pancreas sometimes. So there are things that... Just because it's good for a human doesn't mean that it's good for your dog. And it's definitely not good for a dog that hasn't had certain things introduced to them in the past.

Chris NobleThese are a lot of fascinating questions for owners to ask themselves about their dog.

JoanneIt is, yeah. And things that they wouldn't think of. And there are lots of, as you know, you go on Google and there's a million things to click on. There's several very reputable sites that even today I'll go on and I'll look and see what they have to say about it. And they're not, they are... From the veterinary industry but they're not for veterinarians so they're made for the average person at home to understand and and it asks them questions that they can look at and kind of if it's a yes you go here if it's a no let's go this way and it's just when you find the right place to get medical advice and nutritional advice for your pet then they'll walk you through that it shouldn't be this hard decision that you have to make on your own And at the end of the day, the thing, you know, people come to me with all sorts of things. My thing at the end of the day is above all, do no harm. All right, let's give it to him. It's not going to hurt him, you know. And if we see some improvement, then good, you know. People have, there's all sorts of life constraints, you know, from older people's ability to get their items in the house, which now with all of the DoorDash and all that, it's a lot easier. But it's hard for them to get those things. Sometimes it's hard for them to understand what they may need. Young people who it's their first dog, so mom and dad always took care of the dog and they're not really sure what to do. You have to work with those people. You have to educate them. You have to let them know that what they're doing is okay. And if you only have this budget for your dog, these are the things that are most important. You know, I always try to give people options, A, B, and C. A being... Five star, if I could do everything for my dog, this is what I'm doing. C is like, this is what we're going to do. It's good. It's good. And then when you're able to, we'll add in some of the other things. But everybody wants to do what's best for their dog and their cat. And you just have to find where that happy medium is for people. And they'll meet you there. And then when they see the results, they'll trust you there. And so it's fun. I miss it. I miss it. But then I go back in to take my dogs and I'm like, I'm going home and you're not.

Chris NobleYou talked about your German Shepherd and how you noticed maybe some mobility issues. Yeah. If you had someone come into the clinic with similar problems, what would be some of the first things that you'd be telling them to do?

JoanneSo when we talk about this stuff, I'm only going to talk about plan A. Okay. Because plan B and C are... You know, there's options for that. But let's talk about Plan A.

Cameron MainAnd I think if you want to add as well, what would you say to them before these problems start? Because for German Shepherds, for example, we know that those back legs are going to be hurting.

JoanneSo you're going to talk to my husband later. And he's retired law enforcement. And we met through the animal hospital. And... It was very hard to get my ideas through to police officers who, they love their partner, but he's also a tool to get the job done. It's usually the wife who is babying over their working dog, and as long as he's good to go in the morning, they want what's best for him, but they're men, and okay. To me, it was always keeping Dude's body strong. Ever since he was a puppy, we've never exercised Dude on hard surfaces, especially as a puppy. Large breed dogs have big spaces in between their bones, and that constant pressure of exercising them on hard surfaces and stuff like that. You know, you see people jogging with their dogs and that sort of stuff down the sidewalk, and it's just ultimately not what's best for him. Dude doesn't play fetch. He can play fetch if we're rolling the ball. I don't want dude jumping in the air and twisting his back and doing those sorts of things. The best thing we've done for dude exercise-wise, all of our dogs, is they swim. Swim is their strength training. It keeps their joints healthy, their muscles big, and they're able to really stretch out all those muscles and swim very well. The other thing, nutritionally, dude's always been at an optimum weight, and it's kind of hard with working dogs, especially dude. He always has something more important than eating. Where are you going? Why aren't you here? I got to go find him. You really have to sit down and have your coffee or dude's not going to eat. He's going to follow you around. It's just not high on his priority list. So he's never been prone to being overweight. The golden retriever, on the other hand, if it's not nailed down, he'll eat it. But so dude, keeping him in an optimal weight, which for dude is actually making sure he eats enough. And so with that, he eats a higher protein food than the other dogs do. And that helps with that. I recommend to clients, you want to start on an omega or a cosequin type of supplement before you see these things. Just like us, it keeps everything lubricated. And as we know, it even helps with your brain function. And those things are hard to get into dog food because they don't... In traditional dog food, okay? Kibble, which I don't know the percentages these days, but I'm going to go with the fact that it's the highest way that people are feeding their dogs right now. When through the cooking process of dog food, those omegas don't stay very naturally in the food. And then you can't just go buy omegas at the health food store because dogs don't process those omegas the same way as we do. And a lot of those won't process well for you either. So it's not just what you're giving. It's how it's delivered also and how their body absorbs it. So those are the things that we have done for Dude. And now I've introduced just very recently some non-steroidal anti-inflammatories to help him with what I saw as just some soreness in him. He's by no means slowed down any. There's nothing he doesn't want to do. But I saw a nuance in him, and we've both commented that in the past, he's been out for two weeks now. In the past week, we've really seen that, which means he's not hurting. So he doesn't hesitate now before he wants to get in the van or he gets on the couch. It's important. Nutrition, as I said before, is what fuels the machine. If we start our pets off on a good nutritional cycle, then it helps them in their older years. You know, we get these dogs out of the last cat that we adopted. I got him out of the shelter. A great shelter here in town. And he just, he was about six months old and he just looked a mess. He was gross. He had ringworm and he had bald patches here and this there. And he, the diet, and that's what my husband is, was not brought up as a cat guy. He's like, he looks so much better. And I said, This is all diet. We didn't do anything to that cat except give him a warm place to sleep. And he'd been in foster care, so he'd been an indoor cat. But it's the nutrition. And God bless shelters. They do the best that they can. And they get a lot, a lot of high-quality foods donated to them. But it's not always feasible for them to feed the Plan A food. They're doing more than we could ever do. And the cats just turn around. And my dog food I've fed to my rescue dogs before. And it's just amazing. Dude is a black German Shepherd. He's bicolor, but he's mostly black. And it never fails. You take him out somewhere and people comment on his coat. And they're like, what do you put on it? It's not. It's what I put in him. You know, that's what makes him look like that. And this is a dog who swims every day in the chlorinated pool. That's how he looks. So it means everything.

Chris NobleYou mentioned inflammation. Is that a big issue that you see in dogs?

JoanneThere's different kinds of inflammation, as you know. It's a huge problem, especially in older dogs. Because of how far we've come with... The care of the dogs, the medical care, the nutrition, the supplements and things that we're able to give them, the lifestyle we're able to give them. They're not tied up to a tree or living in a doghouse anymore. Our dogs are living a lot longer. So we're seeing these age-related things come up. My old golden retriever that's not with us anymore had cognitive issues the last year of his life where we see in older people, you know, he really got that anxious kind of personality that's not... Prone to a golden retriever. And it was purely age. I'd lived with the dog since he was 10 weeks old. And it was hard to watch, but those are the age-related changes that we see. And so now what we have to do is we've made it so our dogs are able to live this wonderful long life. Now, what do we do to make it a good life? You know, it's not... It's not quantity, it's quality. So I think that that's what people need to remember. In smaller dogs, what we see most when little dogs get older and little dogs who live with older people who they've kind of aged together, the little dogs, I find obesity is one of the biggest problems with the smaller dogs nutrition-wise. They get older. Most likely always been lap dogs and so now they're even more so they get a little spoiled and it doesn't take much to make a five pound dog overweight you know dude or happy can gain two or three pounds and is not really noticeable that's half that little guy's weight so it's really noticeable in those guys and it's hard to tell owners you learn the politically correct ways to tell them oh do you think he's fat well He hasn't missed a meal, but we'll talk about that in a minute. So there's a way to go about it and for them to accept it. And again, they want to do what's best. They wouldn't be sitting in front of you if they didn't want to know what the best avenue was for the dog.

Cameron MainIt's like you say a little bit as well. It's not just about getting the longest amount of time out of the dog. It's about getting the highest quality years.

JoanneYes.

Cameron MainAnd that was a huge part of the sort of longevity trip that we wanted to take when we designed our products.

JoanneCorrect. It's, you know, and it's since I lost my dog last year. You just, the phones pick up on everything. So you kind of get bombarded with all this stuff. And one of the things, and it gets me every time I see it, and it is that so happy, I only have 12 to 13 summers with happy. That goes by really fast, you know? And they say the days are long, but the years are short. So it's, you know, everybody says, oh, I want to take him to the beach. We'll go next summer. Okay, then you only got 10 more after that. So it's something that you have to really, if this is going to be who you walk through this life with, you've been gifted this very special soul. And you look into their eyes and you know it's more than just a mammal sitting there looking at you. They can read our emotions. They can understand the tone of our voice. So I think we owe it to them to give them the absolute best care and best life that is afforded to us. I'd rather not go somewhere than miss out on something with my dog. And when Douglas, when his, the age progressed very quickly at the end. And when that was happening, I Emily will tell you they were I just didn't I just wanted to stay with Doug and Doug didn't want to go anywhere because now he's anxious and now trying for myself not to be anxious with him because he knows how I'm feeling and was and they get very connected to you it's just you have to appreciate that and I think you have to honor what has been put in your care Whether you paid $4,000 for a show dog, or you paid $40 at the shelter, or you got in for free on the side of the road, you took on the responsibility. And you've been entrusted with him. And so it's your responsibility to find out what's best for him. And what's best for my dog might not be best for your dog. So I think it's always a conversation that you have to have with always somebody who knows more than you do and figure out what the best avenue is to do that.

Cameron MainUsing the summers as a perspective.

JoanneHard, huh?

Cameron MainYeah, you hit me like a little bit.

JoanneI saw your face.

Cameron MainYeah, I'm thinking about it's not just a year. Like when you put it like that, it becomes real.

JoanneAnd if you're lucky, you have that many.

Cameron MainYeah, if you're lucky.

JoanneBecause, you know, you get into some of those giant breeds and maybe you have eight summers.

Cameron MainYeah.

JoanneWhich is why my husband grew up with a Great Dane and he loves them. And I'm like, well, let's get a Dane. We were looking for a dog or whatever. And he's like, I can't. I can't do eight years with a dog.

Cameron MainIt's not long enough. It really isn't.

JoanneIs it ever long enough?

Cameron MainIt's not. And I think that was one of the things that we headed off with you so quickly about was you had that exact passion about...

JoanneThis is...

Cameron MainThat was, that's for us...

JoanneThis has always been, and not just nutrition, like veterinary medicine, like the... Process of making this little guy's life the best it can be, you know? And in turn, that makes the person attached to the other end of the leash think what that does for their life. You know, one of the biggest things for me, and I'll get back to that, is I was at the grocery store and there was this old guy that would come in and he had this cat that just would not eat. The cat was at end stage kidney failure. He was just trying to nurse this little cat around. It was just him and the cat. I said, go to the grocery store, get some, you know, chicken gizzards are always great. They always love that. Get some raw shrimp, whatever. Whatever they have there that's good, we just need your cat to eat. And I'm at the grocery store, and I see the guy, and I have this horrible habit. I don't remember people's names, but I remember their animals' names. And then you're lucky if I recognize you without your pet attached to you, which is how it should be. You want me paying more attention to your pet. But I heard him asking the butcher shrimp for his cat because the girl at the vet recommended it. And I was like, oh, God. You know, it just, I, it was helpful to him. He was at his wits' end. He didn't know what to do. And he listened, which, geez, that's a shocker. But it's just... It's such a gift that I've been given to want to do that. And I was very, you know, after I got through wanting to be a ballerina and all that other stuff, and I was still in elementary school, and that's all I wanted to do. And I remember going to my childhood veterinarian, who ended up being one of my teachers at school, and asking if I could volunteer, and I was too young. And then, you know, life kind of takes you in other places. And I didn't end up working in my first animal hospital until I was 19. 18. I was 18. And... But it's not - there was never a question. The question was, what did I want to do in the animal hospital? And I always wanted to be a veterinarian. And some of that is you - young people don't understand that there's so many other options within the animal hospital. And as time has gone on, the people under the veterinarian have lots and lots more avenues for responsibility. So I'm doing my thing. I go to school. And then the vet's like, so are you going to go to vet school? And I said - No, I don't want to get woken up in the middle of the night because back then you still called the vet who was on call in the middle of the night. I don't want to be responsible in surgery. It's boring in there anyway. I don't need to write prescriptions. Those are the only two things I can't do. I can't do surgery. I can't diagnose your pet. And I can't write prescriptions. Now, some of that has changed. And depending on the state, I was in veterinary medicine in Florida for a little while. And vet techs there can do some surgeries. I did not do them. I did not want to do them. But so I said, no. And I said, I get just as much fulfillment out of what I do now. As you do. And I go home and I don't have $250,000 in school loans. And he just, he's, and I still talk to him. He, you know, he said, I can, I never thought of it that way. So it's, and my last position in the animal hospital was as practice manager. So, and that was my least favorite position that I've had. So there's, there's a lot to do. And there's even more now, I think that young people who want to work with pets don't know about from working in a shelter to being in the military. You know, there's all these things you can do that have to do with dogs and taking care of them and making sure they live their best life. And it's, unless it's something that you... Understand isn't always a happy scenario, but it's always a scenario that you can make better somehow. Maybe I can't fix your dog, but I can get you another month with your dog, or I can help you understand why this is happening to your dog. And it's weird to say it's a calling, but I think the lucky people somehow just know where they're supposed to go. And I miss it a lot of times. And then it's very emotionally taxing. And it's exhausting. And also, there are a lot of long hours. Emily will tell you. There are pets. The police dogs, some of the techs couldn't walk them or get them out of the kennels. And I'd have to go on Sunday. It was years before I could say, oh, I've done enough Christmases. Christmas is on you now. So the animal hospital is 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Whether their doors are unlocked or not. There's always something that has to be taken care of. And veterinarians wear a lot of hats, and their team members wear a lot of hats from general practitioner to nutrition to blood transfusions to surgery, all that stuff. So there's a lot to do, and it's not just one species. So there's a lot asked of those people, so be nice to them.

Transcript edited lightly for readability. Timestamps and captions will follow with the video release.